This is a very good article getting one to think ourside the canon; however,,, I take note when you say: "From a modern perspective, this contradiction is striking. It would seem neither truly Stoic nor Christian to own slaves." Going back to Hegel, of whom you mention, we cannot rid ourselves of the master/slave dialectic. Marx tried but failed. The clothes we are wearing were probably made in a sweat shop in Pakistan and the workers that serve us are often in a worried state in that the pay is low bringing one to deeper debt. When I take rides to Marin, across the bridge from SF, I see slave labor taking care of the houses and children,, while the elite just have fun playing pickleball. Is there a difference?
This is interesting and may explain why humans created certain ideas in the religious sense, but miss what the real message of Jesus was and this is more related to Buddhism, than ancient philosophy. It is suggested that Jesus spent time in India in his early years studying Buddhism and his words and those of Buddha marry very well. Jesus certainly would not have excepted slavery as he states that "whatever you do to the least of these, you do for me" from Matthew 25:40 emphasizes the importance of caring for those in need, especially the vulnerable and marginalized. We are all one and from the same source, so love your neighbour as yourself. Our true nature is love and when we move away from that especially when judging others, we lower our vibration and will most likely eventually get sick. A stoic life is not essential but a caring, compassionate and loving one is. We are even capable of performing miracles if we have unconditional love as Jesus did.
Born and raised Catholic, I was introduced to Stoicism about 10 years ago. Stoicism has helped me better understand some of the New Testament scripture and vice versa. One big difference for me is that Stoicism offers specific principles for showing up as your best version AND contributing the best you can to you community. It’s an action based philosophy designed to help people interact better with the external world while not maintaining internal balance snd focus and not getting distracted by external events.
Excellent treatment of Stoicism as compared to Judeo-Christianity values.
"Render what is Caesars' to Caesar and unto to God what is God's" certainly mirrors the philosophy of a Stoical turn toward inner reflection. The analogue of material wealth as a "Camel passing through the eye of a needle" in qualifying one for salvation in the hereafter, Seneca would probably have agreed, as a living standard in the here and now.
All of which reminds us that any political philosophy that seeks to subsume the individual in favor of group identity, such as Marxism, or even the stalking horse of Communism as is Socialism, comes at an extreme price to be paid by the individual spirit, regardless of any level of accumulated material wealth.
The view of stoicism presented here, its focus on the inner life, seems at odds with the early Stoics who advocated engagement with political life. What accounts for the different attitude on this critical issue? Is one account of stoicism more authentic or more consistent with stoic ideals?
I have recently read "Meditations" by Marcus Aurelius. It is not clear how much Jewish Old Testament knowledge he had. But he did believe that the natural order was designed and held together by a force he called Logos. The Apostle John, in writing the book in the New Testament that bears his name, uses the word Logos (translated Word), noting that the Logos was there at the beginning of creation. Then John converts the Stoic Logos to a Person, Yeshua (Jesus). Read the first chapter of his book to see the uses of common Stoic terms.
I have Jesus educated in Alexandria Egypt, thus speaking Greek and knowing the newly written Wisdom Books of the Bible. His lineage would be that of a lover of Sophia, a Philosopher. Hagia Sophia is a divine religious protagonist of several of the Wisdom Books of the Bible. Her description of God as Holy Spirit is one of the best in religious scripture. She grants Enlightenment, and is the Being of Light and Love in whom we have Communion. Devotion to Hagia Sophia as Mother, Spirit, and the Bride, appears to be how philosophers in the first century BCE worshiped God as mystery sects (cults) active in Alexandria. Sophia establishes the Eucharistic sacrament in Proverbs long before Jesus was born. But according to Edgar Cayce, Yogananda, and Pythagoras, Jesus learned his religious philosophy in India where He is established as an Avatar.
One does not need to read the ancients to come up with that kind of character and way of life. I lived it and based my life around that kind of character long before studying Christianity. I embraced the faith for years after reading the NT and finding it to agree with the concepts that I held dear.
I have never studied the stoics or other philosophies, but hold to such concepts as having value. A right way of life is chosen by the individual by what he has judged for himself to be correct. One should not rely on a teaching, no matter how many people hold to it. People need to think independently.
I embraced the Christian faith because I trusted the bible and pastors as being good and holy, thus not challenging the teachings for validity. When I saw they lied, that they were phonies, when the Christians scammed me, I read more carefully.
I debunked the bible soundly. The god of every religion, and of the world, and of the holy books, is Lucifer. I bend my knee and worship NO god, man or woman. I learned to not trust them.
Jesus never existed. The New Testament was composed by pharisee Josephus for the Roman empire to impose a slave and submissive mentality on Rome's citizens. My book THE UNTOLD NATURE OF CHRISTIANITY proves, using many hundreds of scriptures to prove scores of points, that the bible and quran is full of occult symbolism, bad values, contradicting concepts, spells, and outright lies.
A true man of righteousness is led by the spirit. The Holy Spirit is not one of the trinity, is not a person. The Hebrew words translated to “Holy Spirit” are “rouach hakodesh” Kodesh is defined as “outside of worldliness,” and can mean being unselfish, not chasing sensual desires, not involved in worldly or materialistic desires. It is called in English- “holy.” “Rouach” is defined as “breath” or “wind.” In other words, Holy Spirit is that enthusiastic force within some people that drives them to strive against worldly materialistic sensual temptations and selfish motivations.
In the Old Testament, Moses fought against oppressive slave masters, Sampson slew a thousand oppressive Philistines with the jawbone of a donkey, when the spirit came upon him. David killed Goliath. In 1 Kings chapter 18, Elijah called fire down from heaven and slaughtered 450 prophets of Baal. In 2Kings chapters nine and ten, the prophet Elisha anointed Jehu with oil, who killed all the Baal worshippers in Israel.
In the OT, the spirit was responsible for enabling prophets, kings, and warriors to have the incentive, drive, courage, and strength to successfully oppose the powerful evil entities against all odds. Baal was the god of prosperity and virility- money and sex.
But in the New Testament, while the spirit did oppose the flesh, it was tamed and disarmed. The fruits of the spirit are described in Galatians chapter five as love, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. That scripture is followed by the statement: against those there is no law. So be overcome by evil powers, because you don’t want to break any laws those powers made.
Funny (not really, a better word is “suspicious”) how the same book that tells you to be a good slave, to obey your government, to be a sheep, to turn the other cheek, to love your enemies, and bless those who curse you, to rejoice when being persecuted, that weakness is strength, to not trust your own wisdom, to pay taxes and tithes, and to return goodness to evil, has now declared that the spirit of the righteous warrior should be replaced with gentleness, restraint, and patience. It excludes from the list of positive qualities such characteristics as integrity, courage, and wisdom. Does that not raise some red flags??? Is this realization not alarming?? What have we been taught? Why?? What is their motivation?!! Seems to me that they want to strip us of what a man really is, to make sure that nobody attempts to break free of slavery.
The bible was used on innocent people, and used language to make them feel knowledgable, it was a trap to capture naïve victims and put them in spiritual bondage in hell.
Mat 11:25 At that time Jesus declared, “I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children; Mat 11:26 yes, Father, for such was your gracious will. Mat 11:27 All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him. Mat 11:28 Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
The burden of servitude in hell is not so easy as the bible claims. The devil is a liar. Now some of you think that you are not slaves, that you have freedom. Not according to Jesus.
Does it not make sense that a book that talks of rewards for blind obedience, the representatives of which constantly tells you that you are to worship and give money to its leaders, and get in return great rewards (after you die), could be seen as manipulative?
A god that ensures military victories and wealth for obedience to, and worship and honor given to its leaders, who follow blindly the guidance of a spiritual being. In the OT, kings were lifted up by prophets and warriors who obeyed and listened to God’s directions. The welfare of kingdoms and whole nations rested on the obedience of the leaders to this controlling God. Listen to me, and you have victory and wealth.
Could this not be a way to wield evil plans? Does it not wreak of manipulation and exploitation? Could not some teachings in the New Testament be taken as directions to make a faith of people who are following it to be good slaves, a people who obey as a result of following a prophet who they are told is god, and who it is shown to have teachings that lead towards a people who are easily controlled and oppressed? Just entertain the possibility as I make the concept more visible and unfold as you read the pages. First, let me show some scriptures that were possibly inserted to make a population manageable. POSSIBLY??!!??!!??
⦁ Rom 13:1 ISV Every person must be subject to the governing authorities, for no authority exists except by God's permission. The existing authorities have been established by God,
13:2 so that whoever resists the authorities opposes what God has established, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.
13:3 For the authorities are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you like to live without being afraid of the authorities? Then do what is right, and you will receive their approval.
13:4 For they are God's servants, working for your good. But if you do what is wrong, you should be afraid, for it is not without reason that they bear the sword. Indeed, they are God's servants to administer punishment to anyone who does wrong.
13:5 Therefore, it is necessary for you to be acquiescent to the authorities, not only for the sake of God's punishment, but also for the sake of your own conscience.
13:6 This is also why you pay taxes. For rulers are God's servants faithfully devoting themselves to their work.
13:7 Pay everyone whatever you owe them—taxes to whom taxes are due, tolls to whom tolls are due, fear to whom fear is due, honor to whom honor is due.
There are some very suspicious characteristics here that need to be addressed. The Apostle Paul supposedly wrote this. He spent literally years incarcerated by the Romans. Yes, they did protect him from the Jews to some extent. But if his god was so powerful, why did he need the protection of unbelievers?
The truth of the matter is that the ruling powers are not good, are not out for the good of people, and do indeed enforce evil laws, and don’t often enforce the good laws. Powers and rulers in this world are put in place for the sole purpose of protecting the interests of those who are really in power and who are wealthy.
If the law was really so good, why was Jesus executed? Why does the New Testament recall for us the beheading of John the baptizer and the execution of James? Why then, was Peter put in chains? The Bible records that they were all imprisoned for their faith.
In the Old Testament, Daniel, Joseph, and Jeremiah were all imprisoned unjustly. Since when have rulers been good? Should we really think it to be a positive thing that we are forced to pay taxes for an evil government to be able to exercise evil doings? If these government employees serve God, I don’t want to be associated with that god. If our legal system is an avenger to punish those who do
This is a very good article getting one to think ourside the canon; however,,, I take note when you say: "From a modern perspective, this contradiction is striking. It would seem neither truly Stoic nor Christian to own slaves." Going back to Hegel, of whom you mention, we cannot rid ourselves of the master/slave dialectic. Marx tried but failed. The clothes we are wearing were probably made in a sweat shop in Pakistan and the workers that serve us are often in a worried state in that the pay is low bringing one to deeper debt. When I take rides to Marin, across the bridge from SF, I see slave labor taking care of the houses and children,, while the elite just have fun playing pickleball. Is there a difference?
heartbreaking but a very excellent point...
I’ve often thought this myself.
Jesus doesn’t appear to have been a Stoic in the formal sense, but Stoicism clearly shaped the world Christianity emerged into.
Paul the Apostle even directly addressed the Stoics in Scripture, using shared language around virtue, endurance, and self-mastery.
Answer: No, He wasn't.
He was Jewish.
He is the Messiah that not the Greeks or Romans saw coming, but that the Hebrew prophets prophesied.
Don't get it twisted.
This is interesting and may explain why humans created certain ideas in the religious sense, but miss what the real message of Jesus was and this is more related to Buddhism, than ancient philosophy. It is suggested that Jesus spent time in India in his early years studying Buddhism and his words and those of Buddha marry very well. Jesus certainly would not have excepted slavery as he states that "whatever you do to the least of these, you do for me" from Matthew 25:40 emphasizes the importance of caring for those in need, especially the vulnerable and marginalized. We are all one and from the same source, so love your neighbour as yourself. Our true nature is love and when we move away from that especially when judging others, we lower our vibration and will most likely eventually get sick. A stoic life is not essential but a caring, compassionate and loving one is. We are even capable of performing miracles if we have unconditional love as Jesus did.
Born and raised Catholic, I was introduced to Stoicism about 10 years ago. Stoicism has helped me better understand some of the New Testament scripture and vice versa. One big difference for me is that Stoicism offers specific principles for showing up as your best version AND contributing the best you can to you community. It’s an action based philosophy designed to help people interact better with the external world while not maintaining internal balance snd focus and not getting distracted by external events.
Excellent treatment of Stoicism as compared to Judeo-Christianity values.
"Render what is Caesars' to Caesar and unto to God what is God's" certainly mirrors the philosophy of a Stoical turn toward inner reflection. The analogue of material wealth as a "Camel passing through the eye of a needle" in qualifying one for salvation in the hereafter, Seneca would probably have agreed, as a living standard in the here and now.
All of which reminds us that any political philosophy that seeks to subsume the individual in favor of group identity, such as Marxism, or even the stalking horse of Communism as is Socialism, comes at an extreme price to be paid by the individual spirit, regardless of any level of accumulated material wealth.
The view of stoicism presented here, its focus on the inner life, seems at odds with the early Stoics who advocated engagement with political life. What accounts for the different attitude on this critical issue? Is one account of stoicism more authentic or more consistent with stoic ideals?
Probably.
I have recently read "Meditations" by Marcus Aurelius. It is not clear how much Jewish Old Testament knowledge he had. But he did believe that the natural order was designed and held together by a force he called Logos. The Apostle John, in writing the book in the New Testament that bears his name, uses the word Logos (translated Word), noting that the Logos was there at the beginning of creation. Then John converts the Stoic Logos to a Person, Yeshua (Jesus). Read the first chapter of his book to see the uses of common Stoic terms.
I have Jesus educated in Alexandria Egypt, thus speaking Greek and knowing the newly written Wisdom Books of the Bible. His lineage would be that of a lover of Sophia, a Philosopher. Hagia Sophia is a divine religious protagonist of several of the Wisdom Books of the Bible. Her description of God as Holy Spirit is one of the best in religious scripture. She grants Enlightenment, and is the Being of Light and Love in whom we have Communion. Devotion to Hagia Sophia as Mother, Spirit, and the Bride, appears to be how philosophers in the first century BCE worshiped God as mystery sects (cults) active in Alexandria. Sophia establishes the Eucharistic sacrament in Proverbs long before Jesus was born. But according to Edgar Cayce, Yogananda, and Pythagoras, Jesus learned his religious philosophy in India where He is established as an Avatar.
One does not need to read the ancients to come up with that kind of character and way of life. I lived it and based my life around that kind of character long before studying Christianity. I embraced the faith for years after reading the NT and finding it to agree with the concepts that I held dear.
I have never studied the stoics or other philosophies, but hold to such concepts as having value. A right way of life is chosen by the individual by what he has judged for himself to be correct. One should not rely on a teaching, no matter how many people hold to it. People need to think independently.
I embraced the Christian faith because I trusted the bible and pastors as being good and holy, thus not challenging the teachings for validity. When I saw they lied, that they were phonies, when the Christians scammed me, I read more carefully.
I debunked the bible soundly. The god of every religion, and of the world, and of the holy books, is Lucifer. I bend my knee and worship NO god, man or woman. I learned to not trust them.
Jesus never existed. The New Testament was composed by pharisee Josephus for the Roman empire to impose a slave and submissive mentality on Rome's citizens. My book THE UNTOLD NATURE OF CHRISTIANITY proves, using many hundreds of scriptures to prove scores of points, that the bible and quran is full of occult symbolism, bad values, contradicting concepts, spells, and outright lies.
A true man of righteousness is led by the spirit. The Holy Spirit is not one of the trinity, is not a person. The Hebrew words translated to “Holy Spirit” are “rouach hakodesh” Kodesh is defined as “outside of worldliness,” and can mean being unselfish, not chasing sensual desires, not involved in worldly or materialistic desires. It is called in English- “holy.” “Rouach” is defined as “breath” or “wind.” In other words, Holy Spirit is that enthusiastic force within some people that drives them to strive against worldly materialistic sensual temptations and selfish motivations.
In the Old Testament, Moses fought against oppressive slave masters, Sampson slew a thousand oppressive Philistines with the jawbone of a donkey, when the spirit came upon him. David killed Goliath. In 1 Kings chapter 18, Elijah called fire down from heaven and slaughtered 450 prophets of Baal. In 2Kings chapters nine and ten, the prophet Elisha anointed Jehu with oil, who killed all the Baal worshippers in Israel.
In the OT, the spirit was responsible for enabling prophets, kings, and warriors to have the incentive, drive, courage, and strength to successfully oppose the powerful evil entities against all odds. Baal was the god of prosperity and virility- money and sex.
But in the New Testament, while the spirit did oppose the flesh, it was tamed and disarmed. The fruits of the spirit are described in Galatians chapter five as love, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. That scripture is followed by the statement: against those there is no law. So be overcome by evil powers, because you don’t want to break any laws those powers made.
Funny (not really, a better word is “suspicious”) how the same book that tells you to be a good slave, to obey your government, to be a sheep, to turn the other cheek, to love your enemies, and bless those who curse you, to rejoice when being persecuted, that weakness is strength, to not trust your own wisdom, to pay taxes and tithes, and to return goodness to evil, has now declared that the spirit of the righteous warrior should be replaced with gentleness, restraint, and patience. It excludes from the list of positive qualities such characteristics as integrity, courage, and wisdom. Does that not raise some red flags??? Is this realization not alarming?? What have we been taught? Why?? What is their motivation?!! Seems to me that they want to strip us of what a man really is, to make sure that nobody attempts to break free of slavery.
The bible was used on innocent people, and used language to make them feel knowledgable, it was a trap to capture naïve victims and put them in spiritual bondage in hell.
Mat 11:25 At that time Jesus declared, “I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children; Mat 11:26 yes, Father, for such was your gracious will. Mat 11:27 All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him. Mat 11:28 Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
The burden of servitude in hell is not so easy as the bible claims. The devil is a liar. Now some of you think that you are not slaves, that you have freedom. Not according to Jesus.
IT IS ALL ABOUT CONTROL AND OPPRESSION
Does it not make sense that a book that talks of rewards for blind obedience, the representatives of which constantly tells you that you are to worship and give money to its leaders, and get in return great rewards (after you die), could be seen as manipulative?
A god that ensures military victories and wealth for obedience to, and worship and honor given to its leaders, who follow blindly the guidance of a spiritual being. In the OT, kings were lifted up by prophets and warriors who obeyed and listened to God’s directions. The welfare of kingdoms and whole nations rested on the obedience of the leaders to this controlling God. Listen to me, and you have victory and wealth.
Could this not be a way to wield evil plans? Does it not wreak of manipulation and exploitation? Could not some teachings in the New Testament be taken as directions to make a faith of people who are following it to be good slaves, a people who obey as a result of following a prophet who they are told is god, and who it is shown to have teachings that lead towards a people who are easily controlled and oppressed? Just entertain the possibility as I make the concept more visible and unfold as you read the pages. First, let me show some scriptures that were possibly inserted to make a population manageable. POSSIBLY??!!??!!??
⦁ Rom 13:1 ISV Every person must be subject to the governing authorities, for no authority exists except by God's permission. The existing authorities have been established by God,
13:2 so that whoever resists the authorities opposes what God has established, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.
13:3 For the authorities are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you like to live without being afraid of the authorities? Then do what is right, and you will receive their approval.
13:4 For they are God's servants, working for your good. But if you do what is wrong, you should be afraid, for it is not without reason that they bear the sword. Indeed, they are God's servants to administer punishment to anyone who does wrong.
13:5 Therefore, it is necessary for you to be acquiescent to the authorities, not only for the sake of God's punishment, but also for the sake of your own conscience.
13:6 This is also why you pay taxes. For rulers are God's servants faithfully devoting themselves to their work.
13:7 Pay everyone whatever you owe them—taxes to whom taxes are due, tolls to whom tolls are due, fear to whom fear is due, honor to whom honor is due.
There are some very suspicious characteristics here that need to be addressed. The Apostle Paul supposedly wrote this. He spent literally years incarcerated by the Romans. Yes, they did protect him from the Jews to some extent. But if his god was so powerful, why did he need the protection of unbelievers?
The truth of the matter is that the ruling powers are not good, are not out for the good of people, and do indeed enforce evil laws, and don’t often enforce the good laws. Powers and rulers in this world are put in place for the sole purpose of protecting the interests of those who are really in power and who are wealthy.
If the law was really so good, why was Jesus executed? Why does the New Testament recall for us the beheading of John the baptizer and the execution of James? Why then, was Peter put in chains? The Bible records that they were all imprisoned for their faith.
In the Old Testament, Daniel, Joseph, and Jeremiah were all imprisoned unjustly. Since when have rulers been good? Should we really think it to be a positive thing that we are forced to pay taxes for an evil government to be able to exercise evil doings? If these government employees serve God, I don’t want to be associated with that god. If our legal system is an avenger to punish those who do