Herodotus Versus Thucydides?

Which Historian Wins?... and Why?

Dear Classical Wisdom Readers, 

Never has the construction outside our apartment sounded so sweet! After many months on the road, covering 9 countries, countless trains, planes, boats and automobiles, nearly missing floods, fires, and invasions, we have returned to our quiet spot in the bustling metropolis that is Buenos Aires. We’re home! We’re finally home! 

And just in time to begin our beloved Essential Greeks Course... 

In fact, it was here in Buenos Aires -in Bill Bonner’s house- that we filmed and produced the course ourselves. That is, with the exception of one module, which was filmed in the Agora offices in Baltimore (funnily enough, in the same room as a House of Cards’ episode).

House of Cards fans… with Euripides!

Long time readers may recognize the dashing presenter, Joel Bowman...and recall the head creator of course was our in-house classicist, Ben Potter, who we recently ran into on the streets of Tbilisi. Ben will be joining us live for our mid-course Q&A Webinar. 

But first, is today’s Welcome Webinar in a few hours. 

I’m actually preparing for it now! We have relaunched the course on a new platform, which promises to make it a much easier, smoother experience, but does entail familiarizing myself a little more with the features, before showing them off to this year’s students. 

As such, in lieu of this week’s normal Monday mailbag, please enjoy a concise overview of the two most important ancient Greek historians, Herodotus and Thucydides, below.

(Essential Greeks students can view this as a brief preview - as we will be delving into both -including their works and legacies- during the course). 

What do you think, dear reader? Who wins? Herodotus... or Thucydides? And why? 

As always, feel free to reply to this email or write to me directly at anya@classicalwisdom.com. 

All the best,
Anya Leonard

Founder and Director
Classical Wisdom

P.S. If you haven’t registered for the course already, there is still time! You can sign up now to join the welcome webinar at Noon EST - but if you can’t attend at that time, don’t worry! All students will receive the video of the welcome webinar afterwards.

 

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Thucydides Vs Herodotus: Which Historian Wins?

By Ben Potter

There has been a great deal of focus on the differences between Herodotus and Thucydides. Both men have been granted the ‘father of history’ accolade, but chronologically Herodotus must be the winner of the distinction as Thucydides picks up where he leaves off.

For those in need of a quick recap, Herodotus was born circa 484 BC into a sophisticated family in the Persian-loyal city-state of Halicarnassus (modern Bodrum, Turkey). Having grown up with a privileged background, a good education and a window to the outside world, it should not be surprising that Herodotus became the traveler and chronicler he did.

Visits to Egypt, Greece, Tyre, Babylon and Italy are reported with enough veracity to suggest that they really occurred – e.g. he considered Egypt an ‘opposite land’ as the Nile flooded in the summer. It was these journeys that he chronicled into his magnum opus, The Histories.

The Histories was never fully taken on face value and never will be, but as more and more evidence builds up to vindicate Herodotus (e.g. he described Gelonus, a gigantic Scythian city which was only discovered in 1975) it becomes harder to dismiss him entirely as a fantasist, a defamer, or a fraud.

Meanwhile, Thucydides, was born in 460 BC in the center of the Ancient Greek world, Athens, but had considerable influence in Thrace due to owning gold mines. He is most famous for his History of the Peloponnesian War, which detailed the ongoings of the war between Athens and Sparta.

In the beginning he experienced the epic conflict first hand as an Athenian General…until he lost a crucial battle and was greatly disgraced. This action led to his exile, a surprising benefit and important step to becoming the outsider recorder of events.

With essential historical data conveyed, we can return back to our comparison and contrast of the two historians. The differences between Herodotus and Thucydides are in style, interpretation and purpose.

Herodotus passes no judgment, but reports what he has heard, even when plainly ridiculous. Also, he is more holistic; concerned with nature, culture, speech, art, with the cornucopia of the human condition. Thucydides is reporting on war, and war alone.

Another key difference is that Herodotus’ chronicles show what moral lessons can be learnt. Thucydides isn’t concerned with morality, but pragmatism. He thinks men’s mistakes come in the deed, not the thought.

It is for this devotion to the pragmatic that Thucydides, together with Niccolo Machiavelli and Thomas Hobbes, is considered the father of political realism – in other words, the need for a nation to be militarily and economically powerful rather than good, just or ethical.

This legacy flourishes right up to the modern day; Thucydides’ text is still standard issue at the U.S. Naval College in Newport.

In truth it is not really fair to compare Herodotus to Thucydides. Herodotus is a strange amalgam of Homer, Polybius and Pliny the Elder. He isn’t an historian, but an holistic compiler, almost an encyclopedia writer. Actually we’ve made an historiographical soap-opera out of a rivalry that doesn’t really exist.

But, supposed rivalry aside, it would be unfair and churlish to dwell on the limitations or bias of such a great and innovative source as Thucydides. This is a period of history which included such great writers as Plato, Sophocles, Euripides and Aristophanes – none are more enlightening on the politics of the times than our exiled historian.