Thanks - a worthy subject! I wasn't completely sure about this: 'Though some now dispute the veracity of such a story [the story of Euripides fleeing to escape persecution], the mere fact that it was popularly believed tells a tale in itself.' What I wonder about is when that story was circulating or was popular. A lot of these stories about the persecution of intellectuals in democratic Athens come from significantly later, and so it's possible that they reflect later misunderstandings, not solid evidence even for the kinds of thing that were thought possible or likely at the time.
Yes, there's a sense in which all the snippets we have from whatever period are interesting - but they might tell us more about the period they were written in than about 5th-century Athens!
Sparta had two kings one leading the army in the war and the other staying in the city They were the EXECUTIVE.It had the Apela the General Assembly of the Spartan citizens that decided on everything . This was the LEGISLATIVE. and the Ephors who supervised everything and could veto decisions made by others.The JUDICIARY.
Anksčiau aptarti graikų mitai unikalūs tuo, kad jie yra vieninteliai pasaulinės literatūros pavyzdžiai, kuriuose bandoma įveikti mitą , pašalinti dievų interesus bei vaidus ir įtvirtinti netvarią žmogaus įsteigtą pasaulio tvarką, grista savitvarkos galimybe ir drąsa klysti. Iš tokios pat nuostatos išauga filosofija, skepsis, nukreiptas prieš dieviškąsias galybes ir jų sugebėjimas paveikti žmogaus orientacija į galią bei privačių interesų vyravimą; taip pripažįstama, kad dievybės nesuinteresuotos teisingumu ir tiesa dėl jų pačių, bet irgi siekia galios, padėdamos vienai ar kitai kariaujančiai pusei. Trumpai tariant, dievybės neturėtų atstovauti poliui ar jį simbolizuoti; polyje reikia siekti tiesos klystant ir ištaisant klaidą, bet be jokių interesų. Taigi galima sakyti, kad filosofija kyla ne iš mito, tačiau klasikos laikų graikai mitu naudojosi tam, kad parodytų dievybių trūkumus ir žmogaus sugebėjimą savo reikalus tvarkyti pačiam.
Dabar pabrėžkime vieną reikalavimą, Atėnės iškeltą naujojo polio piliečiams: pilietis gali būti laisvas tik tada, kai apriboja savo interesus, poreikius ir galios geismą, tada jis gali atsiverti patiems daiktams, kurių vaizdas neiškreiptas asmeninių idiosinkrazijų. Be tokios laisvės neįmanoma pasiekti tiesos , jokia nelaisvai pasiekta netobula tiesa negali būti susieta su žmogui būdinga savybe klysti, todėl negali būti ištaisyta. Svarbu pažymėti, kad toks reikalavimas aprioriškai pašalina netgi Graikijoje iškilusią nuostatą, pagal kurią < žmogus yra visų daiktų matas >
Filosofijos likimas A. Mickūnas. Arvydas Šliogeris
Aristotle had to six forms of government. One good and one bad. Little is exclusively one or the other but the list is an informative dichotomy times three.
1. Monarchy (theoretically monarchy should look after the interest of all the people)
Tyranny (one individual looking out for his or her own best interests)
2. Aristocracy(the best people in a society looking out for the greater good)
Oligarchy (the few ruling with disregard for what is best for all)
3. Constitutional republic (laws, adjudicated for consistent rule with a view for what is fair and beneficial)
Democracy (mob rule with a little consistency or fairness)
A philosopher (lover of wisdom) would first know the definition of a word- then make a logical argument. Today, it seems, arguments are made without knowing the definition. Last night for example, there was a democratic supporter agreeing with Kamala that her opponent Trump is a fascist. When asked what is a fascist, she told the reporter, I actually don't know.
Well, you and all those from Classical Wisdom help make the world a little better place, just by sharing knowledge. Even as simple as defining a word which gets lost in translation.
Cimon was the hero of a war with Persia, which started all this, Pericles had him banished, Just like Patton was killed before he could write his book. Thrasymachus forever.
Pure Democracy is the worst form of government for no other reason that it is subject to manipulation and propaganda like no other and is the least transparent.
It has been called mob rule, but a better moniker would be “Apparent rule by Brainwashed Masses”.
Thanks - a worthy subject! I wasn't completely sure about this: 'Though some now dispute the veracity of such a story [the story of Euripides fleeing to escape persecution], the mere fact that it was popularly believed tells a tale in itself.' What I wonder about is when that story was circulating or was popular. A lot of these stories about the persecution of intellectuals in democratic Athens come from significantly later, and so it's possible that they reflect later misunderstandings, not solid evidence even for the kinds of thing that were thought possible or likely at the time.
Good point - I'll have to look into that... but I suppose it would still be interesting if it was popular later?
Yes, there's a sense in which all the snippets we have from whatever period are interesting - but they might tell us more about the period they were written in than about 5th-century Athens!
Sparta had two kings one leading the army in the war and the other staying in the city They were the EXECUTIVE.It had the Apela the General Assembly of the Spartan citizens that decided on everything . This was the LEGISLATIVE. and the Ephors who supervised everything and could veto decisions made by others.The JUDICIARY.
Filosofijos etosas
Anksčiau aptarti graikų mitai unikalūs tuo, kad jie yra vieninteliai pasaulinės literatūros pavyzdžiai, kuriuose bandoma įveikti mitą , pašalinti dievų interesus bei vaidus ir įtvirtinti netvarią žmogaus įsteigtą pasaulio tvarką, grista savitvarkos galimybe ir drąsa klysti. Iš tokios pat nuostatos išauga filosofija, skepsis, nukreiptas prieš dieviškąsias galybes ir jų sugebėjimas paveikti žmogaus orientacija į galią bei privačių interesų vyravimą; taip pripažįstama, kad dievybės nesuinteresuotos teisingumu ir tiesa dėl jų pačių, bet irgi siekia galios, padėdamos vienai ar kitai kariaujančiai pusei. Trumpai tariant, dievybės neturėtų atstovauti poliui ar jį simbolizuoti; polyje reikia siekti tiesos klystant ir ištaisant klaidą, bet be jokių interesų. Taigi galima sakyti, kad filosofija kyla ne iš mito, tačiau klasikos laikų graikai mitu naudojosi tam, kad parodytų dievybių trūkumus ir žmogaus sugebėjimą savo reikalus tvarkyti pačiam.
Dabar pabrėžkime vieną reikalavimą, Atėnės iškeltą naujojo polio piliečiams: pilietis gali būti laisvas tik tada, kai apriboja savo interesus, poreikius ir galios geismą, tada jis gali atsiverti patiems daiktams, kurių vaizdas neiškreiptas asmeninių idiosinkrazijų. Be tokios laisvės neįmanoma pasiekti tiesos , jokia nelaisvai pasiekta netobula tiesa negali būti susieta su žmogui būdinga savybe klysti, todėl negali būti ištaisyta. Svarbu pažymėti, kad toks reikalavimas aprioriškai pašalina netgi Graikijoje iškilusią nuostatą, pagal kurią < žmogus yra visų daiktų matas >
Filosofijos likimas A. Mickūnas. Arvydas Šliogeris
Baltos lankos 2009
Pusl. 223
Aristotle had to six forms of government. One good and one bad. Little is exclusively one or the other but the list is an informative dichotomy times three.
1. Monarchy (theoretically monarchy should look after the interest of all the people)
Tyranny (one individual looking out for his or her own best interests)
2. Aristocracy(the best people in a society looking out for the greater good)
Oligarchy (the few ruling with disregard for what is best for all)
3. Constitutional republic (laws, adjudicated for consistent rule with a view for what is fair and beneficial)
Democracy (mob rule with a little consistency or fairness)
It is interesting how so many philosophers at the time were 'anti-democracy'...
A philosopher (lover of wisdom) would first know the definition of a word- then make a logical argument. Today, it seems, arguments are made without knowing the definition. Last night for example, there was a democratic supporter agreeing with Kamala that her opponent Trump is a fascist. When asked what is a fascist, she told the reporter, I actually don't know.
I don't know whether to like, laugh or cry...
Well, you and all those from Classical Wisdom help make the world a little better place, just by sharing knowledge. Even as simple as defining a word which gets lost in translation.
Great and fair summary, thank you!
Cimon was the hero of a war with Persia, which started all this, Pericles had him banished, Just like Patton was killed before he could write his book. Thrasymachus forever.
Pure Democracy is the worst form of government for no other reason that it is subject to manipulation and propaganda like no other and is the least transparent.
It has been called mob rule, but a better moniker would be “Apparent rule by Brainwashed Masses”.
I always like the comparison of 5 wolves and 2 sheep decided what to have for dinner...